Speaker 1 00:00:03 Welcome to the digital brand builder podcast, where we bring you the best growth strategies from the world’s experts to help build your business fast. And now here’s your host, mark Fidelman.
Speaker 2 00:00:16 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the digital brand builder podcast. Today. We’re gonna talk about one of my favorite subjects, obviously, because I’ve got a podcast. I’ve got a couple actually, and a couple more in the works, but, uh, that’s a subject for the future. So we’re gonna talk about, okay, you’ve got a podcast. How do you do once are marketing on podcasts? How do you find brand ambassadors? How do you advertise on podcasts, uh, to reach your target audience? So we’re gonna talk about all these subjects and more with somebody that join is joining us all the way from Eastern Europe. His name is Ned co Ned cough, and, uh, uh, besides only have one letter difference in his first and last name, which we’ll get into real quickly. , uh, I would like to introduce Medco to the show and Neco, please give us kind of a hundred word or less bio about yourself.
Speaker 0 00:01:15 Hi mark. Thank you for hearing me on the show. All right. So I I’m web entrepreneur since my teenage years, and I’ve been, uh, outsourcing for, uh, searching genes rankings at first, like 10, 12 years ago, we, we had a agency for ASU and marketing and over the years I started to get more involved into paid advertising. I was co-founder in, uh, small contextual network and over time I really started to get more patient around advertising and startups. And that’s how we started, uh, our first, uh, uh, project brand advertiser first startup, which is, uh, websites, advertising marketplace. And over the years we were learning and in two 12, in 2020, we were stick at home the whole world and, uh, stuck at home. And, uh, we, and, uh, that’s when actually we, we I’ve been listening way more on podcast and it started to become like a great medium for me. Very interesting. And, uh, at some point we decided to devote, uh, our main project and to, and start, and we built, uh, advertiser with z.com, which became like our, uh, really focus for 2020. And it was like, uh, really great. And we are starting to feel like momentum product market fit.
Speaker 2 00:02:40 Okay. Uh, so yeah, what better, medium than podcasts while we’re all at home, or most of us are at home, especially in, in our line of work. And, uh, it’s so easy to do. I mean, I’m talking to you from Bulgaria and I’m in San Diego, so it’s, it’s kind of the perfect media and for marketers, if you know how to use it well, and, and that’s, uh, the big, the big question mark that we’re gonna get into now, NCO, um, about that name of yours. So how, how did you, was this something that, uh, your parents, uh, did on purpose? Or how does that, how does that work? All
Speaker 0 00:03:17 Right. So it’s a tradition in Bulgaria actually like grandchild to be named after the grandfather. Uh, especially the first kids, if it’s a boy after the, the grandfather, if it’s a girl after the grandmother. And, uh, actually my grandfather name is NCO as well, but we put O V as family name. So that’s how it became a net million of net. Like my father is Milian, but my grandfather is net. And so I start, uh, a new family line. Let’s say, you can say it this way. Got
Speaker 2 00:03:55 It. So that, that makes a lot of sense. I thought maybe you were going for like the one, you know, how celebrities are referred to by just the first name. Oh,
Speaker 0 00:04:04 No, no, it’s, it’s a, a coincidence of my parents. Uh, okay. Hence my grand parents love me much and he, uh, us over the years, so yeah, maybe
Speaker 2 00:04:16 That’s all. Okay. So let, let’s jump right in. So, right. Let’s say somebody listening to this, uh, either wants to, you know, reach influencers, uh, on their podcast or advertise on podcast. If they’re a brand on an influencer’s podcast, what is it, uh, that you, you do and how do you do it? All
Speaker 0 00:04:41 Right. So what we are building is, uh, podcast peer to peer podcasts, sponsorships marketplace, where it’s mostly for, uh, host threes. So, uh, we connect brands and influencer marketing agencies with, uh, with most relevant podcasts based on context right now. And we are working on, uh, when we are onboarding podcasts with their audience. And that was the task and all this well,
Speaker 2 00:05:09 Before you move on, how do you do that? Is it, is it an AI technology or, or is it manual
Speaker 0 00:05:14 Mm-hmm so it’s, uh, it’s machine learning right now, mostly. And, uh, yeah, we are, we are working on AI and to build like, uh, our, right now it’s, its mostly based on search engine, gene matching and on categories. So
Speaker 2 00:05:31 You’ve, you’ve categorized all the podcasts that are out there. Is that, is that what you’ve done? Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:05:35 Those are, we we’ve aggregated like the most popular 20,000 podcasts and uh, they’re all categorized it’s. Uh, and uh, and then we also added on that, uh, our machine learning model where we have like, uh, search engine, uh, which searches between uh, titles descriptions and more tax that we work on. Cause uh, some podcast need more, more, uh, context targets and all this. And uh, right now it’s connect it’s uh, sorting them based on, based on searching on category. And then we are working on, uh, filtering part, which is going to help you on, uh, on a secondary level to filter those, uh, uh, the results that you get from the search or category into, uh, filtering by downloads and by audience data details, enter pricing at some point when we onboard enough, uh, podcasts, direct relations.
Speaker 2 00:06:36 Okay. So you do a lot, so what’s the peer tope advertising aspect of this. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:06:42 Yeah. Okay. So the thing is we, we are more focused, not so much on programmatic advertising, like, uh, you know, like ads that, so in the middle of the podcast and start advertise, but we are more focused on host three ads where we, where we, uh, where we meet. And, uh, you can say meet because, uh, we are peer to peer and we are really believing into like open infrastructures and uh, direct, uh, communication between the podcast cost or the agency that represents the podcast and, uh, the brands, uh, and we really connect the, the both sides to communicate directly. Uh, they, they should be already offers from the podcast, but also they can make a custom offer for the advertiser after discussion. They have like, uh, direct messaging system in the marketplace. And then, uh, we support with the escrow of the sale and with, uh, feedback on, uh, on the sale after the, on the delivery of the podcast.
Speaker 0 00:07:47 I mean the how to explain, yeah, we, we do the escrow part where, uh, once the podcast is, uh, is, uh, written and uploads, when you share the link with advertiser than the money on logs and both sides are happy because they, they receive the products, uh, easily. And, uh, that the thing is peer to peer works best for, uh, you can say it like, you know, probably fiber. So we are trying, yeah, we are trying to build like fiber for podcasts where we connect the both sides and really let them do, uh, as they want. Uh, so
Speaker 2 00:08:24 You probably email@example.com, is it it’s different than that?
Speaker 0 00:08:28 Yeah. Yeah. It’s different matchmaker is more like for interviews and it’s really matching both sides. Also another one is PO do net is also great. One, those are more like for finding guests and finding podcasts to participate with us. It’s more like you are looking for sponsorship. Maybe Pete’s, uh, uh, interviews will be an option. It really depends on the podcast cause he can list any kind of offer really from the regular per mid and postal to, uh, sponsorship and to whatever. And you know, it’s much better as a, as a podcast. Your audience is, uh, you know, way more loyal and interested to, to you and to what you have to say. And if you, if you, uh, VO for some product or brand or whatever, it, it, there will be way more, uh, trust and interest, uh, for the audience to check it out instead if it’s a commercial. So that is what we are focusing on to have the podcast really engage with his audience and to who directly the sponsorship reading or, uh, implement it as he decides into the podcast.
Speaker 2 00:09:41 Okay. Okay. So now that we got that covered, I wanna talk about other ways that podcasters like myself and, and other, uh, let’s say brands or marketers that want to collaborate with podcasts. Yeah. What other strategies or tactics do you recommend people do?
Speaker 0 00:10:00 Sure. So, uh, I believe the, the, there is a emerging trend, a AAS on the publisher side, there are more podcasts growing, same time, a lot of brands start to understand and to, uh, and they listen probably themselves, but also they start to understand how great and loyal audiences on the podcast. So they also start to build on their side, like, uh, uh, brand ambassador programs. Usually it’s like, uh, uh, some, some pre-create creative, uh, or, uh, or content, which, uh, I, the podcasts can really join with them and, uh, share to its audience. And they earn like commission based. And, uh, this is really a great model because it’s a win-win for both sides. And, uh, you know, it’s, it’s really not engaging too much time and not too much time for the podcast to figure out like content creative and all cause it’s already, and in the same time, the brand can, uh, work with much wider audience, uh, with more podcasts, which it wouldn’t be able to afford if they have to do direct advertising.
Speaker 0 00:11:13 I believe this is a great, uh, model for, for both sides also. Uh, I, I, I think that there, there are some affiliate networks out there that, uh, may accept influencers marketing and those influencers, uh, uh, friendly affiliate networks. They also accept, uh, they also should not have a problem to accept like different podcasts. That’s another thing that can work also and, uh, pretty much that’s, uh, the, the, the level that I think is the best model right now. Also another, another thing that can work is, uh, there are lot of Facebook groups that, uh, match podcasts to brands. Like you can search in Google, uh, influencer, uh, I, sorry, influencers, uh, to brands matching. And a lot of there, uh, are talking mostly about Instagram influencers, but they, when they hear about, uh, like ask them, what, what do you think about podcast so medium?
Speaker 0 00:12:14 And, uh, they’re like, oh, tell me more. It sounds interesting. So that’s another thing too, to think where the pod, the influencers marketing like Instagramers and all those are already presented and to try to cover their, and to be there for the podcast, same time for branches, it’s the opposite to, to start implementing like their strategy that they already use for, uh, influencers marketing. Like they use different tools like ninja outreach bus to automate outreaching tools, Instagram influencers, but they’re no search, not so many search tools for us right now. So you need to be a little bit more creative yet. And that’s why we are working on that part too, on board as many podcasters so we can match the both sides really. And, uh, yeah, that, that is another thing that the brands can start, uh, working on, I believe will be very helpful with, uh, outreaching process and campaigns.
Speaker 0 00:13:17 And, uh, they can literally sort like with advertiser with us, they can sort like the most famous few hundred podcasts per category. And then of course it needs some more manual time to, to verify, to browse through those pro files and to figure out like which two plans of them, uh, make most sense, uh, for your brand. And then you can, uh, literally have to, uh, outreach them that that’s the hard part about podcast, cuz it’s, you know, very decentralized medium. So it’s, it’s not only, you never know if they use like web or, uh, email or Twitter. So that’s something that takes a little bit more time and we turn that into a service for brands also. And uh, it’s like, uh, you, you have to outreach, uh, on like the most popular podcast you need to outreach remotely on two channels, like email and website maybe, or, uh, uh, Facebook and Twitter or email, uh, to, to make sure they hear you because a lot of them like have maybe sometimes an agency to, to represent them and all this.
Speaker 0 00:14:27 So you need to, uh, gather the, you need to gather at least to, uh, touch points with them. And then based on like, uh, you have to research more on like, uh, the engagement of the audience and to see like, uh, rankings that’s, uh, another thing that is good to do, like, uh, crossmatch, uh, rankings from APO, at teacher and different apps, uh, at, uh, charitable and, uh, then, uh, at charitable you can even see rankings and how they go up and down and, uh, dot com and, uh, then you, you, you cross match those details. Also, if you see there, uh, let’s say like, uh, on even just 20 podcasts, uh, let’s say, uh, uh, uh, episodes, if you start to see emerging, uh, reviews, it means that the content is very interesting to the audience. So those are like the podcast that have both, uh, reviews and, uh, and the episodes grow over time.
Speaker 0 00:15:35 Uh, those are the best ones to, to outreach. And if it’s like 20 to 50 episodes and you have like 10 reviews or something like this, it’s, it’s great to, to outreach. Cause those are like midsize ones, podcasts, and those are the best ones us to, to start, uh, working on. Cause I believe the influencers marketing at, at the whole and podcasts, uh, marketing is same. It’s like PR campaign. You know, it, it’s better to do it like, uh, to, to do like long term campaign, which is like few months, maybe campaign where you build up, uh, where you build up with, uh, few podcasts per week and, and build up. Cause you, you learn a lot more about what content converts and all these details and, uh, you can build much better content over time and, uh, to build, uh, better momentum with, uh, with less investment, you know, with, uh, smaller podcasts and, uh, then to grow up to the bigger ones and, uh, to think about this, you need to, uh, to customize a little bit more, uh, about the tracking with the podcasts.
Speaker 0 00:16:52 So maybe here you gimme also, uh, like idea, like what, what will be the, the best model will be with, uh, like, uh, coupon code maybe, uh, like when VO for some brand. Yeah. Or another way we, we figure out, uh, over time was like custom domain. It’s very hard to like, but maybe the coupon code makes, uh, most sense, uh, to, to be able to track like, uh, performance and or ROI. And, uh, another thing is to make like social campaigns on movie channel, you know, like if you make, uh, let’s say some campaign for, uh, winter season or for some specific moment, uh, you can, you can make, uh, you can make a multi, multi channel, uh, campaign where you share it on social networks, but you also do, uh, the podcasters to, and bring the podcast audience to the social channels to participate, share like, or whatever. And this way you can make, uh, much, much better social presence with covered by the podcast. So it’s really to cross match and to build baby testing, like, uh, for, for few months, really not, you know, not to split the whole, not to blow the whole budget in a week period or something. Yeah. It’s better to split it, uh, with smaller podcasters, with smaller influencers. So with micro influencers, micro podcast, and then you can learn so much more
Speaker 2 00:18:28 And, you know, when you compare it to something like video or other forms of marketing, right. Why, why should people care about
Speaker 0 00:18:35 Podcasts? All right. All right. So I think the podcast is, uh, way more personal com not communication, but you can also almost say it as a communication both side, uh, cuz it’s the, the listeners are so much, uh, more in, more interested to listen to the podcasts, uh, uh, like episode after episode. So while when you do with video, you, you literally search in YouTube and you like for a few minutes, uh, you watch for a few minutes at the Mo at the most, and then you leave or watch another video. Well, on the podcast, you’re really focused for 30 minutes and more so I believe the CPM thing here in the podcast should not be compared to the CPM in, uh, website at all. Even in Instagram, it’s, you know, uh, nice pictures which make about of CPM, but really engagement is really low. And, uh, there is no loyalty on the audience it’s really just likes and, and that’s all while on the podcast is really, uh, very interested, uh, audience into what the podcaster has to say. So they really follow up, uh, with his, uh, VO for brands and for, uh, some campaign, it could be way more personal, I believe.
Speaker 2 00:19:58 Okay. And then I, I get, that is the only problem I have with podcast. And obviously I run one is the, it’s harder to click on something, unless you’re at the show notes, you could remember the people who your website over and over again. But I, I think, you know, from my perspective, it’s, it’s a harder conversion, but it’s a better branding opportunity and it allows people to know you better. Absolutely.
Speaker 0 00:20:25 It’s like branding brand awareness, but on a personal level, you can say it this way. And also you can, if you make like campaign based, you can really use a custom domain or something to, to make it more, but maybe the best way will be also to, to cross crossmatch or how to say, you know, uh, like make a campaign like easy to remember about campaign, which is on Facebook and promote it on the podcasts. Uh, so you, you make a, yeah, you make a viral campaign this way in, instead of, uh, you know, just saying the domain and then, uh, it really depends on the, on the product. Uh, if it’s a, yeah, if it’s a B2 C product that is better to make more, uh, social campaigns and to make, uh, more, uh, brand awareness. But if it’s, uh, let’s say inform, informative, uh, product like, uh, software or something, then it’s probably better to, to use a coupon code and, uh, like trial different kind of trial campaigns.
Speaker 2 00:21:31 Yeah. Okay. All right. And, and so we’ve covered a lot with the podcast, especially as it pertains to marketers and how you take advantage of them. Is there, you know, anything else that you like about podcasts that make it better, either advertising or marketing medium, medium, or, or channel with your eyes?
Speaker 0 00:21:55 All right. So I, I think it’s the best thinker on podcasts is first it’s really personal and engagement, uh, the audience in a much different way as we talk. And the second think it’s really it’s emerging medium . So it really will be growing over the time. Like, uh, I I’m looking at the marketer and IOP prognosis and it’s like growing like 20, 30% per year on listening hours, even not just on, uh, on, uh, listeners, I believe this will be really growing up and they’re like, uh, 800,000, if I’m, if I’m not from maybe 1 million active podcasts right now. And, uh, they’ll be just growing because they’re like 30 million, uh, uh, YouTube channels. So, you know, they have to grow way more with the podcast. And, uh, uh, uh, and then the, let’s say the monetization works mostly for the first 10 to 20,000 at the max. So there is a lot of opportunities for, from small businesses to, uh, bigger brands, really, to, to match with forecasts and to build, uh, win-win the partnerships and commissions or, uh, giveaways campaigns, or, uh, of course on, uh, fixed, uh, budget.
Speaker 2 00:23:18 Excellent. All right. Well, we are going to wrap things up EDCO, but we, before we do, we always have two questions. The first one is what is the hottest issue and marketing technology that you are recommending your client’s friends family?
Speaker 0 00:23:36 So that’s a good question. Let’s say for, I believe that’s the, the technology that is most, uh, underestimated even by small business, cause they think it’s too complicated. It’s really micro influencers at whole. Let’s say like, uh, even Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and, uh, YouTube and, uh, TikTok and, uh, podcasts. Cause I believe the, the, the, the main thing about small own business is that they don’t produce enough content so they can start building enough quality content and for, and, uh, to, uh, communicate it properly, you know, to, to, through the social networks, through podcasts participation. Cause this is something that you can do almost freely you, you know, and, uh, it, it can really bring you a lot more, uh, brand awareness, uh, and to, to, to show your understanding, to show who you are and, uh, the clients you find your own. So I think this is the main thing with, with micro answers and to build more co
Speaker 2 00:24:46 Okay. And, um, what, uh, our second question usually is, and we’re gonna stick with it, uh, is who’s the most influential person in marketing today.
Speaker 0 00:24:57 All right. So I suppose the most famous answer is with Gary V uh, for me, it’s really interest it’s, uh, like my marketing idol, you can say Seth Godin, I really like, uh, his daily newsletter and I’m reading it. And so those are like, uh, the most, most famous ones I can say for me.
Speaker 2 00:25:21 Yeah. I mean, those are two of the, the standards. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Gary, Gary’s more in the, in the weeds, which I like ’em a little bit better. Seth is more strategic. Um, they’re both combined. They’re good. All right. Well, we are going to wrap things up, but before we do, where can people find you? And by the way, go check out pod advertiser, spelled P O D V E R T I Z E r.com. And you could check out his peer podcast, sponsorship marketplace, but other than that, where do people find you on online?
Speaker 0 00:25:57 Yeah, thank you. And, uh, as advertiser, and then you can also find me on LinkedIn net network from Twitter and yeah, by name, you can find me, let connect.
Speaker 3 00:26:12 All right.
Speaker 1 00:00:03 Welcome to the digital brand builder podcast, where we bring you the best growth strategies from the world’s experts to help build your business fast. And now here’s your host, mark Fidelman.